Wed 9 Nov 2011
The Earth is Flat, I Don’t Care What You Say.
Posted by anaglyph under Gadgets, Hokum, Science, ShooTag, Skeptical Thinking, WooWoo, Words
[20] Comments
You will recall that a couple of weeks back I had a personal letter from Melissa Rogers, CEO of Shoo!TAG, in which she took me to task for ‘defaming’ her product, and asking why I believed there was no scientific support for it. I clearly outlined my position to her in a manner that I thought didn’t leave much room for interpretation. After receiving her reply this morning, though, I get the distinct impression that she didn’t actually read my letter, so much as skim through it in the way that I assume she approaches scientific literature. This is the sum of what she wrote:
Although I respect the right to your opinion, we obviously do not agree. My question is: What would you do, if you discovered you were wrong?
Dear Ms Rogers,
The entire problem here is that we’re not talking about an issue of opinion. You have made claims that challenge fundamental precepts of science as we currently know it, and you have said quite plainly on your web site that your product uses these novel scientific discoveries to repel insects. By doing so you are not putting forward an opinion that I am merely countering with some contrasting opinion. What you are doing is quite deliberately declaring that you have scientific substantiation of the principles by which you say Shoo!TAG operates. Scientific evidence and opinion are two very different things. Indeed, the scientific process is specifically designed to weed out the influence of opinion.
I believe that you understand very clearly that you need more than just opinions to make Shoo!TAG sound credible to your customers. You want to make it appear that you have science behind your claims, because you know, as we all do, that science works. The trouble is that, although you know lots of scientific buzzwords like ‘quantum’ and ‘electromagnetism’ and ‘fractals’, you don’t really understand much about these things, nor indeed, about the scientific process itself.
On your website, you use every opportunity to attempt to give Shoo!TAG scientific validity, even if it means distorting the truth. You use lots of scientific sounding language, you have a ‘Technology’ page (formerly called ‘Science’) where you talk about your ‘lab’ and ‘experiments’. You have implied repeatedly that you have endorsements by legitimate scientific institutions (which is demonstrably not true), and you publish scientific-looking documents with lots of tables and statistics. Your patent application has pages of technical-sounding language which is plainly contrived to give the impression that there is something scientific going on (when really it makes very little sense to anyone who does understand science).
The primary difference between opinion and science is that an opinion is, by its nature, a subjective stance. Science tries very hard to iron out all subjectivity and make an assessment of facts that can be agreed upon by anyone who cares to observe that assessment.
Let me try to explain this difference with some simple analogies:
In the 18th century, a mathematician named Daniel Bernoulli outlined a principle that showed that in a fluid flowing over an object with differing surface areas, a pressure differential is created on one side. This quite simple observation went on to have profound effects for our modern lives, perhaps the most well-known being the invention of the airplane. The Bernoulli Principle is what keeps aircraft in the air. Now it doesn’t matter what your opinion of Bernoulli’s discovery is; it will work for everyone in exactly the same way. Even if you hold an opinion that Bernoulli ‘just made it all up’, it will still work anyway. Bernoulli’s Principle is a sound scientific idea to which millions of people entrust their lives every day. And it is independent of opinion or belief.
Now let’s consider some colours: twenty shades of some dark red colour, say. We can show those colours to a hundred people and probably get a hundred different opinions on which of those shades might be called ‘purple’ or ‘crimson’ or ‘red’. And we could show them to people in China and Spain and Canada and get more opinions still. But if it came down to whether you would stake your life on the opinion of Gladys Blackshaw of Manchester, England, of whether the card she had in her hand was red, crimson or purple, you simply wouldn’t do it. Why? Because opinion is highly subjective and we don’t trust it for important decisions.
This is why humans came up with the idea of science in the first place: it is the most reliable way we know of assessing the world. What this means is that your opinion or my opinion or anyone else’s opinion is entirely irrelevant when it comes to your claims for how Shoo!TAG is supposed to work, because the only correct way of establishing the validity of your claimed results is with science.
You ask me what I would do if I discovered I was wrong? ((Asking a question like this is a technique much beloved of those who are unable to argue with evidence on their side. By throwing an open-ended query back at the interrogator the argument is deflected away from the issue at hand, which, in this case, is: What kind kind of evidence can they provide that they are right? What I would do if I am wrong is hypothetical and irrelevant to the usefulness of the discussion unless they can demonstrate that they are actually right. They are making the unverified claims, not me.)) Well, the only way that I’m going to ‘discover’ that I’m wrong is if you can demonstrate some good science behind your product. The onus is not on me to prove that I’m right – I’m not the one seeking to sell a product based on remarkable new scientific principles. It’s YOU who are obliged to show the world that you’re right – YOU are the one making money out of this scheme. You have a responsibility to back up your claims. As I have said repeatedly, you can easily bring real science to bear on Shoo!TAG, should you have the courage to do it. It’s not even particularly hard science, as these things go. If you genuinely believe in your product, I simply don’t understand why you wouldn’t seek this kind of widely accepted corroboration. The really impressive thing about proper science is that if you really can scientifically demonstrate the astonishing results you say you can get, I (and everyone else on the planet) will have no choice but to accept your evidence, because the science will bear you out.
It won’t come down to a matter of opinion.
Sincerely
Peter Miller
I like your two examples! Very nicely formulated (and I’m not surprised that Mrs Blackshaw’s name is Gladys).
I think this sums up the state of America in most things right now:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmkvtfEEFT0
And geeeeeeezus, this guy is the frontrunner for his party, for the job of FRIKKIN PRESIDENT OF THE WORLD’S POLICE! (at least, that’ what other countries keep calling us…)
I’m glad our presidential candidates think it’s alright to just make fun of our allies, by the way.
/sarcasm
Ahh, but seriously, I think stuff like this adequately explains why Mrs. ShooTag III of Texas thinks ‘science’ can be written off as ‘opinion.’ Just the other day, I was having a somewhat-rousing debate over some policies, and I was presenting facts on dog attacks and dog-bite fatalities, and someone told me that I was biased and, essentially, that those facts don’t matter. People who have educations, who have completed grade 12, who have taken and passed science classes of an elementary level up here, cannot comprehend why facts that aren’t to their liking are still facts. Although, truthfully, the guy was not terribly intelligent, and I think that is another facet of the issue: willful ignorance. I am sure this doesn’t just happen up here, or at least that what ever person I know who isn’t from up here tells me. I am assured that this sort of thing goes on round the world. I think we are just more vocal about it, in some respects.
Then again, ignorance is bliss
/sarcasm again, for real this time.
Poor Melissa, in my humble opinion she’s a snake oil peddler who’s been rumbled, oh, hang on that might just be a fact!
I wonder if there could be a ShooTag! class action, now that would be interesting…
The King
You might be able to, but they would first have to violate an appropriate law first, and then a lawyer would have to take the case, and then make the case, all before it could even be presented to a judge. It would be much easier if some folks had suffered ill-effects directly from the product.
I would agree, it appears to be false advertising, among other things, but whether it is fraudulent enough to warrant a class-action would be a rather difficult case, even with the evidence collected by Anaglyph, considering USA laws and such. It’s sort of like why you can’t sue psychics. Just because they are wrong (in multiple senses of the word) and are taking folks’ money, yet providing no real service or product, doesn’t make it illegal by itself.
It occurs to me that any lawmaker worth their salt would quickly determine that legislation making fortune-telling illegal would be putting quite a few highly-respected and tax-exempt institutions at risk.
I suppose there would have to be a malaria related death or some such thing to take it up a notch.
Oh how my noble dreams founder on the rocks of reality…
Still I watch with interest. Good points chaps.
The King
Yes, but they don’t claim to stop mosquitos from biting, is the thing. They claim to have efficacy in repelling them, but not even total efficacy. By their own ‘science’ the instance of bite is not reduced more than half. Therefore, the lawsuit would have to demonstrate that the ShooTag folks claimed that ShooTags stop Malaria.
Even if there was a Malaria death that resulted from a person trusting a Shoo!TAG, it would be a difficult thing to prove. Remember, Shoo!TAG claims ‘up to’ 80% efficiency, so that mosquito could have slipped in under the other 20%. Also, there are so many caveats on the Shoo!TAG FAQ as to why the tags might not work, that you would have difficulty avoiding most of them under the best of circumstances.
This is one of the truly sneaky things about this product. If you pay very close attention you will see that, while grandiose claims are made, there are plenty of reasons why those grandiose expectations might not be realised. And none of it would be the fault of Energetic Solutions.
Like the National Weather Service?
@JR: Fortune telling is illegal in some parts of the US, legal in others and unregulated in still others. It’s a huge mess. There is also in some states, quite bizarrely, a distinction made between ‘real’ fortune tellers and swindlers. However that is decided…
I believe that In Australia the last remaining vestiges of the Vagrancy Act, which quite sensibly outlawed witchcraft -including all forms of fortune-telling – were disposed of in Victoria in 2003. Now anyone can legally make money by being a ‘fortune teller’.
I am glad that there is a more sensible solution to witchcraft than what my fine country decided upon a few hundred years ago. But darn if ours wasn’t effective….
We had a party here at the castle a few years back set in Roman times and featuring a fortune teller. Before the big date one of our supposedly erudite friends rang and uttered the immortal lines:
I know this is a stupid question, but is it a real fortune teller?
What’s a monarch to do?
The King
The Answer to that question is surely “Well I guess she must be – she’s costing us a fortune”
A moment of pedantry, Rev, if you’ll allow me: “You have inferred repeatedly” should be “you have implied repeatedly, should it not?
Indubitably. Well pedanted, and thank you.
ooooo there’s nothing more exciting than razor sharp pedantry.
Everybody here is entitled to razor sharp pedantry. Must keep the Reverend on his game.
Ever watched Jonathon Creek Rev? A relevant bit of dialogue was:
“Spare me the pedanticism Jonathon!”
“Actually it’s pedantry.”
The King
Ha! A setup, but a good joke all the same!
Ha ha I loved that fortune teller question. I SO wish we could remember which of our subjects it was…