Tue 14 Apr 2009
WooTag™
Posted by anaglyph under Gadgets, Hokum, Skeptical Thinking, WooWoo
[36] Comments
Folks! I’ve had a communication from one of the purveyors of ShooTag™ which, I think you’ll agree needs to be awarded headline status, rather than languish in the Comments on this post.
Melissa Rogers, the person credited as CEO of ShooTag™ on the About page on the ShooTag™ site, has found her way to The Cow (whilst vanity-searching her product, we must assume). Well, of course, I said things she didn’t like so she found time to mount her best and most coherent argument against my point of view.
I reprint her thoughts for you here in full.
Melissa Rogers adds:
Your response proves that you are not disaplined in physics or quantum physics. The statements that you made about frequencies being the same as a cell phone demonstrate you lack of science knowledge. There are many types of frequencies and ours are not radio frequencies. When we go from patent pending to full patent protection, then all of our sceince (all three applications) will be disclosed. Instead of making a judgement without knowledge, try it. Actually, try the people mosquito tag. If you usually get bitten by mosquitoes, you will know if you do not get mosquito bites -won’t you? If would give you more credibility to have a quantum physicist contact us and then let him explain the science to you. Otherwise it just makes you sound ignorant! Technology is changing very quickly and most people have no science background to understand how any of it works. Did you know that radios were first made with crystals? did you know that digital items are made with liquid crystals? Did you know that cell phones use fractal geometry to make a minute antenna that uses your energy field to extend? Do your homework and try the people mosquito tag. See for yourself.
Now, let’s see:
•Your response proves that you are not disaplined in physics or quantum physics.
Melissa, unlike you, I’m not pretending I am disciplined in physics or quantum physics in any formal way. I’m not the one trying to take money from people based on my ‘expertise’ and so my credentials are not the ones under scrutiny. Nevertheless, I am very well read in both physics and quantum physics, and I plainly know a great deal more about these sciences than you do. I certainly know enough to understand that your page on The Science Behind ShooTag™ is a whole lot of waffle that makes no scientific sense whatsoever.
•The statements that you made about frequencies being the same as a cell phone demonstrate you lack of science knowledge.
Whoa! Hang on there pardner! For a start, it’s your site that bandies around the the words ‘electromagnetic frequencies’ without any discrimination at all. I am completely aware of the scope of the electromagnetic spectrum and my point was that you use this catch-all description without having the vaguest idea of what it means. I don’t know whether or not your frequencies are the same as those of a cell phone because you never specify. You just claim, in the scatty manner of peddlers of pseudoscience, that your product ‘uses electromagnetic frequencies’. That’s as daft as saying it uses ‘vibrations’.
•There are many types of frequencies and ours are not radio frequencies.
Really? So you think mobile phones use radio frequencies then? Um, exactly who’s the science dummy here? So, the frequencies that your device uses – they’re ultraviolet, maybe? X-ray? Gamma ray? Perhaps they operate in the visible light spectrum? You haven’t got a clue what I’m talking about, have you?
And, may I ask, does your device have a power source? From my investigation of your site it doesn’t seem so. If this is the case, then please don’t attempt to sell me the idea that it ‘radiates frequencies’ of any kind at all. This would be flying in the face of all known physics. Unless of course it’s radioactive, and I think I’m taking a pretty safe punt that it’s not.
•When we go from patent pending to full patent protection, then all of our sceince (all three applications) will be disclosed.
Yeah, now, see, you claim your patent is pending, and if that is even the case (which I doubt), it would be because it hasn’t been awarded. We can discuss this further if you actually ever get a patent.
•If would give you more credibility to have a quantum physicist contact us and then let him explain the science to you.
Oh, I would LOVE to hear an explanation from a quantum physicist. PLEASE get one to write to me. But don’t bother if it’s Prof. William Nelson – he is NOT a quantum physicist.
•Technology is changing very quickly and most people have no science background to understand how any of it works.
Yes, I’m afraid that is entirely true. Most people have very little understanding of science. If they did, gewgaws such as ShooTag™ would never see the light of day. Melissa, what your product offers is in no way based on science. If it was, you’d be able to clearly communicate the ideas behind your device in a way that doesn’t sound completely addled to anyone with knowledge of scientific principles. You’d have conducted properly run double blind experiments, and accumulated data that confirms your results from unbiased researchers. You’d have submitted your science to peer-reviewed periodicals, and have the endorsement of real scientists instead of a lone nutcase who has a track record of ridiculous claims and refers to fictional publications (the ‘Quantum Agriculture Journal’, for example).
•Otherwise it just makes you sound ignorant!
Really? You seem strangely desperate to try and make me seem ignorant. That’s what’s called an ad hominem argument, and is usually the last resort of someone who has run out of actual facts.
•Did you know that radios were first made with crystals? did you know that digital items are made with liquid crystals?
Um, yeah, but so what? Is that supposed to impress me? Is it an example of your superior science knowledge, perhaps? What’s it got to do with anything? How does it relate to your invention?
Oh crap. Something just occurred to me – please don’t tell me that the ShooTag™ uses some kind of ‘crystals’. That would be most dismal. Or actually, do tell me that, if you like! I think that would firmly stake your credibility in this argument.
•Did you know that cell phones use fractal geometry to make a minute antenna that uses your energy field to extend?
Now, do you even have the foggiest idea what that means? Do you know, or understand any fractal geometry? What ‘energy field’ are you talking about? Extend what? How? Why?
Or is it, perhaps, that like the words ‘magnetic’ and ‘quantum’, you’re throwing in ‘fractal’ because, for you, it’s some kind of mysterious magical notion that you believe will somehow be impressive? Well, sadly, it might bluff those who know nothing about such things, but really, you’ve picked the wrong person on whom to use that kind of language. I work with fractal math. I know what it does and what it means. What you are attempting to say does not in any way sound sensible to me.
•Do your homework and try the people mosquito tag. See for yourself.
I shouldn’t need to try your product to know that it’s plausible, in the same way that I shouldn’t need to buy, oh, toaster or something to ‘see if it works’ – I know that the toaster is likely to function as its manufacturer claims because the scientific principles on which it’s based make sense.
You imply that you know more about science than I do, and yet you don’t even have the most basic understanding of scientific process. I’m not the one you need to convince. Convince people who have no vested interest in your product (that is, NOT people who’ve forked over money, or friends, or credulous tv presenters). Convince unbiased scientists, using properly conducted scientific trials. Take all the spurious anecdotal ‘evidence’ off your website and replace it with some properly endorsed rational thinking.
I reiterate what I said in my original post – if your science is genuine, and your device does what you claim, then doctors working in malaria zones all over the world will be beating your door down. That would certainly be convincing evidence.
But while you continue to invoke dubious ‘scientists’ like ‘Professor’ William Nelson, mythical gazettes like the ‘Quantum Agriculture Journal’ and spout equivocal gibberish such as that which you use in ‘The Science Behind ShooTag™’, your credibility is near zero. Your small pool of personal ‘It-worked-for-me-TOO!’ testimonials may serve to fleece gullible pet owners of their dollars, but it doesn’t constitute any kind of science.
Come back and push my face it in when you’ve solved the world’s malaria problems (which, if your device works as claimed, should be a trivial undertaking and be achievable in a scant year or so – or maybe you don’t think that’s a worthwhile use for your invention?). I promise I will make a full and humble apology in that event.
Until then, all you have to do is show me where the science is in all your claims.
36 Responses to “ WooTag™ ”
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Learning to spell, or at least use a spellchecker would help to raise her, and by extension their, credibility level, too…
Though admittedly not by much, and not where it counts.
Yes, I was going to say that bad spelling is the least of Ms Rogers’ problems, but you beat me to it.
I am not sure that even spelling correctly would give her any credibility. As there is always a spell checker, that she obviously did not find. Maybe because it did not give off the proper radio signals and so she could not find it. Or perhaps she snubbed those radio frequencies as not being good enough for her. I know I am really picky about my radio signals…and I certainly will not wear a watch made of crystals.
I prefer watches made of lama hair instead.
I think that makes about as much sense as she did.
Yup, she showed you.
You know I’ve always wondered what snake oil is really made from, snakes?
Well, I used(1) the ShooTag(TM) for three months(2) and did not see(3) one mosquito on any of the days(4) I was wearing(5) it. Thanks(6), ShooTag!!
1. Until the cat ate it, 3 days after it came.
2. December 2008 through February, 2009, average daily temperature, -10 c.
3. Of course I rarely “see” mosquitoes anyway, I usually just hear their buzzing.
4. Of course, mosquitoes usually come out here, when they are around, at night.
5. Until I lost it, see #1, above.
6. I had no other use for my $24.99 anyway.
Professor William Nelson:
[img]http://www.oldfishandlemonade.com/pix/profwn.jpg[/img]
Please don’t be too hard on my colleague Dr. William Nelson. There are many scholarly articles on his excellent work in the development of a Quantum Xrroid Consciousness Interface (QXCI) System.
There is even an article on his fine work at the quackwatch web site. Though I find the reference to mail fraud to slightly gratuitous.
When I seen sevral comments precedin mine, I fully expecktd to see a raging dbate tween th Revrend & Ms Rogers.
Revrend, yer gonna need some help when she does show up.
Fer you, only $5 a can, since I considr you a feiend.
For the Reverend’s use.
MI: I very much doubt that she remotely understands most of what I said. It’s plain she read the original post and struggled to come up with something on which she could take me to task, judging by her response. I don’t think we’ll be hearing from her again – these people rarely show up for debate because they know they’re con artists, and they know they haven’t got any actual facts on their side.
lahru: Nice to see you here on The Cow. And asking one of life’s most ponderable questions too!
Colonel: So YOU’RE the one writing all their testimonials! I thought I recognized the style.
Atlas: Bwahahaha! Nice try, but that guy has too much credibility.
Dr Ram(nice appellation – I wasn’t aware of your credentials!): Oh yes, I spoke about ‘Professor’ Nelson and his Quantum
HemorrhoidsXrroids in my original post. Lending his name to your product certainly does give it that ‘Echo of a Duck’s Quack’ cachet.Joey: I appreciate your generous offer my friend, but I’ll stow it for a rainy day – it’s hardly likely I’ll need the extra help for Ms Rogers.
Colonel: Ha. But waiddagoddamminute – what does that imply?
Joey – Grade A would be wasted on her. It’s pearls before Shoo-swine.
Prof. Nelson, I learned alot for him.
Hmmm, Melissa Rogers whom I wonder?
Poor saps obviously…
I’m glad you’ve found another disaster loony ripping off the dim-witted to have a chat with Rev, but err I’d rather see more fruitful pursuits myself.
Any good news lately, something to cheer an old monarch up?
The King
“Liquid crystals” and “radios use crystals”?
That hits on my two biggest pet peeves. Bullshit hippy appropriation of the most common oxide in the visible lithosphere. SiO2 is not magical*, it’s common. And yeah, they used it in radios until better alloys came along. Yeah, it vibrates and shit, big fucking deal, so does tourmaline.
When people say computer boards use the mysterious “crystal” power, I hate them. Crystal means nothing. More or less every single particle on earth is crystallized. Stop using mineralogy for your bullshit, hippies!
This might have something to do with an ex-girlfriend owning a mineral/bead store. Not sure.
* If you want to see the absolute end member of retardedness, watch this series. It’s good for a laugh.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rR32IsutTws
Tsk.
So many dangd ignorami scoffin at th sientifick respecktability o crystals!
Cissy Strutt: I think my ShooWooWoo has frightened her off anyway.
Malach: That explains so very much.
King WIlly: You seem to be doing perfectly OK without my help.
Casey: I might do a post someday called ’10 Quick Ways to Spot Hogwash’ or something. #1 would be: ‘Beware of the words ‘magnet’, ‘quantum’, ‘crystal’, ‘vibrations’, ‘fractal’, and ‘energy field”. (#2 would be ‘Be particularly wary if any two of those expressions are used on the same page’).
Ms Rogers exhibits the dotty thought processes I’ve come to expect from Woo Sellers. Unable to take my points to task in any meaningful way she falls back on the strategy of changing the subject (unfortunately in this case to something of which she has just as little knowledge), invoking ‘magic’ (crystals), and ad hominem provocation (“You’re ignorant!”).
Of these, the magical thinking component is the most worrying, since it is plain that for Ms Rogers things like ‘fractals’ and ‘crystals’ hold some kind of talismanic value which she mistakes for science. This, unfortunately, is a very common problem, and it is extraordinary beyond belief that she utters the words “most people have no science background to understand how any of it works.” Even sadder, I imagine that Ms Rogers trots out these inanities whenever she talks on tv shows and at trade fairs and people think it makes sense!
I would be very surprised if we see her again on The Cow – she’s so plainly out of her depth that I doubt she’d tangle with me further. But I’ll keep an eye on ShooTag™ and I’m sure we’ll revisit it in time.
Joey:
I’ve been telling everybody that for years, but do you think I can get any respect?
Hogwash Spotting; A person who uses the exhortation “Ask yourself this …” one or more times in a spiel.
And especially ‘Ask yourself this – ” quickly followed by ‘crystals’, ‘magnets’ etc.
Anyway, much quicker than I thought, some more on Ms Rogers to come…
Well.. I came across your website while I was checking out this magic. I decided, then, to track Mr Professor William Nelson!
I think I have found him… hold on… but William Nelson seems to be a girl. Could it be that this Ms Professor Bill Nelson has a sex change operation and ran out of money in the middle? You be the judge!
http://www.theqxci.com/qxci_nelson.html
http://www.thenaturaltouch.net/downloads/Bill_Nelson_Brief_Biography_English.pdf
http://www.joygermain.com/billnelson.htm
Oh yes, I did do some investigation of Willy N. He/she is a most bizarre character. Not someone whose ‘science’ you’d rely on, methinks.
shoo!Scam anyone? the most galling thing about it is, that either she is really retarded (i can’t believe this) or she is willingly RIPPING OFF the public. Anyone who has done ANY physics can see that this is just a BS scam.
Like the man says.
It’s amazing people are still suckered in by snake oil. The bit about the fractal antennas is correct though (see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fractal_antenna (but not the bit involving extending something or whatever she was on about)
Oh, I’m well aware of the concept behind fractal antennae. I suspect I know more about them than most people in fact. That’s why I asked her if she had even the faintest idea what she was talking about. Someone’s told her that cell phones use fractal antennae and she’s latched onto that as having some kind of relevance to her daft product (it doesn’t).
The quoted literature that these people use as substantiation for their ideas is full of such scientific non-sequiturs. They just pick a lot of concepts like shark electro sensitivity, chaotic attractors, magnetism and quantum non-locality and, without even having the faintest notion of what any of these things really entail, mash them all up together in a way that they think sounds plausible.
I think they think of science as being some kind of religion – they just pick and choose stuff that seems vaguely in step with whatever they already believe and use that as a tract for their followers. No-one questions the provenance of the ideas in the tract itself because they are in some way rendered by ‘divine fiat’.
Science, of course, does not work that way.
Cannot believe that her website is still up… charlatans!
Favourite quote: “””Or is it, perhaps, that like the words ‘magnetic’ and ‘quantum’, you’re throwing in ‘fractal’ because, for you, it’s some kind of mysterious magical notion that you believe will somehow be impressive?”””