Tue 10 Mar 2009
Does a Duck’s Arrrrr! Have an Echo?
Posted by anaglyph under Ephemera, Hokum, Idiots, Skeptical Thinking
[30] Comments
You will remember, dear Acowlytes, that about two months back we discussed the risible claims of Technical Remote Viewing University and their ‘magic’ pen which has the power to see into the future.
You will also remember that at that time I put an object in a box in my bedroom and challenged anyone (magic pen optional) to tell me using ‘remote viewing’ what was in it. Well, today is the day I reveal the contents of the box. Here is a picture of the box. It has a sliding lid and a cylindrical interior. ‘Remote viewing’ should easily have picked up this unusual detail. The box has been sitting, untouched, on the chest of drawers in my bedroom since I set the challenge. I have not moved it, opened it, or changed the object which I placed in it on the day of the challenge.
And this is what was inside. It is a small plastic duck in pirate drag. It is in fact, one of those little trinkets you stick on the end of a pencil. It was given to me by Nurse Myra some while back. Now this seems to me to be something that a ‘remote viewer’ would have no trouble ‘getting’. There are so many unique things about it that I’d at least have expected the words ‘pirate’, ‘little’, ‘plastic’ to be key features of a description.
Imagine my discombobulation, then, when one of the very first comments to be left on the original post was a ‘prediction’ by faithful Acowlyte and regular reader, King Willy. The King commented:
‘I reckon there’s a pirate in that box, a little plastic figure.’
‘Holy Cow,’ I hear you exclaim! ‘King Willy really does have one of the TRVU magic pens, and they really do work! He got it spot on! C’mon Reverend, even your cynical old butt has got to admit that King Willy couldn’t have stumbled upon that description by pure chance!’
Well, as amused and surprised as I was, I realised immediately I could not have asked for a better illustration of how ‘psychics’ ply their trade. On the face of it, this sounds like a truly astonishing achievement – an unassailable example of King Willy’s clairvoyant powers. He was definitely unable to physically look in the box – we live many hundreds of kilometers away from each other. He also had no other way of knowing exactly what was in the box (he could have asked Violet Towne to look in the box, for instance, but he didn’t – Violet Towne had not looked in the box when King Willy posted his comment*). I didn’t drop any hints at all in the post, and I did not tell anyone what was in the box. No-one saw me put the pirate duck in the box. And yet The King described exactly what was in the box!
So how the hell did King Willy accomplish this astonishing feat?
Well, as it happens, herein lies the whole mechanism for the success of the ‘psychic’ industry. Now, although I know that King Willy will want to lay claim to the fact that he is indeed psychic, or that his psychic pen was running hot that day (King Willy is a rather silly fellow and likes to say things like that), his powers are not what they might at first seem.
On a purely technical level, there are a few things that a shyster could have done to come some way towards appearing to know what I’d hidden away from you all. First of all, the description ‘little’ is something of a no-brainer. The thing I’d chosen had to be small enough to fit in a box on a chest of drawers in my bedroom. Even if the box had been a shoe-box, most anybody could have persuasively argued that the object in it was ‘little’. Compared to an elephant, say, sure, it would have been.
But King Willy is no shyster, and that’s not what he was doing. So, even given that ‘little’ was an educated guess, what about ‘plastic’ and especially ‘pirate’? And the combination ‘little plastic pirate’? That’s a bit too much of a stretch isn’t it Reverend? Surely King Willy can’t have inferred all those things? Well, no, I agree, he couldn’t have deduced those things from the context of what I told you. In fact, I’m pretty sure that the King was guessing that what I put in the box was this:
And that’s because King Willy and Pil gave me this ‘little plastic pirate’ as a present for my birthday in 2006! Indeed, it has featured previously on The Cow as an item that lives in Mysterious Corner.
And it’s a pretty good guess. It’s likely to have been something I might have put in the box. It’s small, and interesting, and under normal circumstances something that would have been close at hand.† Which points to another key ‘psychic’ maxim: ‘Know your victim’. King Willy knows (along with most of my friends, including all you Cow readers), that I’m partial to things piratical. So a guess in the realm of one of my personal interests was also a reasonable prospect. In fact, I made a classic experimenter error by choosing the ‘pirate’ duck – it gives away something of my personality. To be more scientifically correct, what I should have done was ask a third party to find a number of objects for me and wrap them all up so I couldn’t see what they were. I should have then chosen one at random and placed it in the box. That way, even I wouldn’t have known what was in there.
The more astute of you will also realise that throughout this post I’ve been leading you by the nose when it comes to selling King Willy’s accuracy – a little while back I said ‘And yet The King described exactly what was in the box!’
This is a classic piece of psychological manipulation. King Willy, at no time described ‘exactly what was in the box’, although, had you been consulting a psychic, this is the very impression you would have been encouraged to adopt. King Willy explicitly missed some key features of the thing in the box – aspects I would have thought a lot more significant in a broader sense than ‘pirate’ or ‘little plastic figure’. ‘Black’, for instance, springs immediately to mind, but most obviously ‘duck’. Perhaps not so evident in the photo, but definitely important, is the large ‘hole’ in the bottom of the duck which makes it so clearly a pencil decoration.
So an accurate and acceptable description of what was in the box would surely be (very simply): ‘a pencil ornament that looks like a small black duck wearing a pirate outfit’ (in fact, I’d have to say that if King Willy had used even the two words ‘pirate’ and ‘duck’ in confluence it would have been enough to have given me pause, but then, given the circumstances, I’d have been more suspicious of nefarious dealings). If remote viewing were at all possible, then plainly it is only useful if it gives you significant details, rather than a few scattered facts that could be construed in any number of ways.
Strangely (or perhaps not), there were almost no other attempts to scry the box’s secret. Atlas tried the ol’ dependable ‘air’ (an expert ‘psychic’ ploy – go for something vague that can’t be disproved), Cissy Strutt opted for ‘human tooth’ (which I told you all was wrong, and in any case, she was using inside knowledge of me and Mysterious Corner as well – she just guessed badly) and Pil hinted that she knew exactly what it was, but, as all physicists know, although she was equally right and wrong until the box was opened, she was proved most definitely wrong on that event.‡
Unsurprisingly, no-one from TRVU showed up to take a stab – a task that should surely be trivial for remote viewing ‘experts’ who can look into the mind of Osama Bin Laden.
Maybe someone tried but they got distracted by the little pirate duck waggling around on the end of their pen?
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*In fact, she never looked in the box until I opened it. Of course, scientifically-speaking the possibility that she could have would completely negate the results of a genuine experiment. It is conceivable that King Willy & Violet Towne conspired, and VT sneakily opened the box when I wasn’t looking.
†As it happens, Mysterious Corner is still packed away in my storage, so the little pirate was very unlikely to be the thing in the box.
‡And Glitch wouldn’t fit in there anyway.
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30 Responses to “ Does a Duck’s Arrrrr! Have an Echo? ”
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I was completely right for 2 months! (But sadly the TRVU pen only has a 2 mths warranty).
Well bugger me with a bargepole Rev, does the phrase “Sore Loser” mean anything to you?
Well it shouldn’t, I didn’t mention Black or Duck – so I failed of course. Nice to know I know you well enough to guess aspects of your behaviour, alarming to think that others attempt to profit by such tomfoolery.
Being a “silly fellow” I have to ask, where’s that damn medal though!
It’s not enough I wrote my Rasputin poem, it’s not enough I guessed the pirate, it’s clearly not enough that there’s been an entire post on me…
What’s a royal personage to do?
Guess you’ll find out when we visit in a fortnight.
LOL
The King
Pil: It behooves me to point out (‘behooves‘ – such a nice word. Doesn’t get enough use these days. Hey, and my spellcheck knows it!), anyway, it behooves me to point out that, according to quantum theory, you were simultaneously completely wrong for two months. You were just more wrong when the box was opened.
King Willy: Crikey – you have a whole post written about you and you STILL want a medal! Talk about greedy. Anyways, you need a blog to hang it on, and you don’t got one of those…
Bah, a blog is sooo 21st century, my myspace page is hand-carved from oak by slaves in the finest of traditions.
Kings are greedy, that’s why we’re in charge!
I simply wished to add it to my impressive collection of honours…
Still if this is your only form of tribute… You may live.
The King
Anyone wanna buy a pen, 50% off.
One owner, 50% accurate, better odds than the casino.
The King
>>I simply wished to add it to my impressive collection of honours…
Oh, is that what you call that big pile of dusty analogue amplifiers?
I was going to write something else, but was distracted by misreading King Willy’s sentence as “my impressive collection of horrors”. Perhaps I was still hung up on the human tooth. (Yes, absolutely a wild guess based on inside knowledge).
Well, we won’t go on to the collection of ‘horrors’ just for now. Meeker sensibilities may be affronted (I mean valve compressors, for God’s sake! It’s unnatural).
As for the tooth – ah well, it was worth a punt. If you’d been right, you could be charging double in the the Fortune Telling Tent!
Be not vicious, a couple of your tracks my end up passing through my ‘chain’ on the way to the Sandcastle Sampler – or I could just use Plug-ins, or do nothing at all!
The King
excuse me King Willy – that post was NOT entirely about YOU. I got a mention too…..
King Willy: The ‘do nothing at all’ option sounds favourable. But how could I be sure…
Nurse Myra: Exactly. Typical of royalty: “Me me me!”.
Yes indeed OO bountiful Nursie, but you already appear to be sporting a fine set of medals! Mine alas…
Yours positively glow.
Rev, well yer takes yer chances – perhaps I’ll use my pen, if it inscribes ‘Mono’ I shall have no choice but to obey, after all the pen is mightier etc.
The King
>>if it inscribes ‘Mono’ I shall have no choice but to obey, after all the pen is mightier etc
It wouldn’t make much difference. Qantas managed to downgrade it from 4 track to stereo without a blink of the eye. Apparently no-one notices…
May I tell a story? Thanks.
Oh psychics. I agree, many call themselves psychics and prey on the weak minded and easily amused for a living. Have seen it many many times.
But I had an unusual childhood into adulthood experience with my best friend. We met when she was 4 and I was 5 and the “ghosts” started tormenting her then. Later the dreams that came true, weekly. Later even the out right flat out predictions and visions spot on started. What was scary is that she was being raised Catholic at the time (that has since been cured) and she was terrified and didn’t understand all of this nonsense and she had a “why me” and “how do I make this stop” or “Am I crazy and going to hell as my crazy bitch ass catholic mother says?” She only had me to turn to.
In her 20’s she started to study alternate forms of religions and philosophy of this so called “gift” so she could learn to turn it off and on and get a decent nights sleep. This only seemed to make her gift stronger as she began to build confidence about it. 20 years later those who taught her said she would be teaching them, and they were right. She uses her gift which is rare and extraordinary but refuses to charge for it.
One day, exactly was September 4, of a year I shall give in a few, I was preparing for my first trip to Florida on a plane for my first real vacation away from my boys, a few years after my divorce and paid for by my current boyfriend. Life was good….I had been sick and this was such a welcome change of pace.
My friend and I met for lunch and she says to me (as I NEVER fly…never the money for it) While you are away, stay away from glass will ya? I looked at her perplexed and asked why. She said she had one of “her dreams.” Uh oh. She said “I had a dream, you were on the ground, laying there all cut up, bleeding, glass everywhere. People were running around us, in a panic. I kept trying to stop someone to help you, get you to an ambulance and no one would listen. There was just all of this glass everywhere.”
Well, gee thanks! Just what I need to hear right before I leave for Florida. So stay away from any glass, gotcha.
I go away, I have a great time. The morning came for me to pack and head back to the airport to return home. My boyfriend came back from dropping his daughter off at school and it was sometime after 9am. I had to be at the airport by 11am. So with a sigh, I pack. Suddenly we hear news on the TV in the other room about towers, planes, …yes, it was September 11, 2001. We ran out into the living room just in time to see the second plane hit the second tower. I realized then I was stuck there, and stuck there good, separated from my kids by 1500 miles.
What did she dream. Not me getting hurt, but what was going on on the ground in NYC, and that I was somehow going to be tangled up in it all. It took me four days before we could drive me home (24 hour drive) due to all of the bridges and tunnels being closed. We would have had to drive through DC to get me home.
Knowing this person my entire life, trusting her with my life and seeing way to many weird things happen that not even I could explain, hell even she couldn’t at times made me a believer. But she will tell you when she cannot see something. She describes it as a good or bad radio signal. Somedays, for some folks she gets a good signal and understands what she saw, other times she has no idea.
P.S. I want a pirate rubber ducky.
Reminds me of that dinner we had in Melbourne with someone’s sister Rev, hmmm
The King
Wait, I’m confused…. How didja turn the pirate guy into a black duck again?
Atlas, by the power of the pen of course!
The King
oH HULLO THEY’RE mR.anagliff,ist’ mr,derak hergreaves Hear now juts you luck hear cos i as bin readiN YOU’rE ARTIkle wot you rote an i wos varry intriged by all wot ewe righted cos wehn i wos an Lad i us;ed to av an PIRITT toy like taht one wot you’s got but off cause it wos wudden an mush,maw old-fashuined ahahahhahahaa,oh an buy the weigh i is probly the OLDEST dam person wot reed’s this websight cos i becamed 79 yars old on valintyne’ Day witch wos on 14st febry ahahahah,oh hallo their. mr aganliff i fort you might be intresed to no wot i as ad sevral SOUPERNASHRUL encarnters’ in My live includin eggsperience’s wiv ghoats,an i as evern ROTE sum frillin artichoke’s abote it on an panarourmal grope on fAICEBUCK as you erd of faysebuck its’ wot thay call’s an dam stinkin SOASHUL knetwerkin sight ahahahahah,i as bin an meber four juts over an yer cos my varry distan gRATE-nEHPEW invitied me to join an i as now got my own grewp on their wiv sum fassyneightin arcitle’s wot i as rote about pollytick’s an sush matters,but enuff abote that mr anaGLIPh an king WILLIAM,lest’ get down to brars tax,i leaved an massage on this site an few day’s ago consernin an WISSLIN NOAM wot i is intresed in an i as to stre’ss agin wot its’ an matta of BLEEDIN ugrency wot i find’s ote wevver sush an gnome is availble hear in gRATE BRITON cos i need’s one to perteck my flat form introoda’s ahahahahahahhahaha oh hullo they form an retryed BUTLER called dreek hergove’s ahahahah,oh its’ darek hergrarve;s hear ahahahahah,hallo mr aganphillyf, now lissen ep i dun av mush maw thyme at the COMPEWTER cos my leg’s is gettin WrestleR’s so i nees’ to go four an work so i wull be chequin this page leighter an sea wevver anyone as got back to mE YET.luck hear if them nome’s carn be buyed in englund just let me no an i wun menshun it agin aaahahahah,bet wishies from an frayle eld chep wot wented to EAtON COLLIGE as an kid an payed is own dam skool fee’s an wored an big tope,hat an an smart blakke SOOT an got 3 degree’s one in ENGILSH one in sarnse,ant.won in persnul hygean well carn right no moore now,ta-ra for now an bets wishies four an grate knew weeak,buy buy from unkle darreck.hullo
MI: Well now. Let me try to de-construct the things you’ve told me about your friend from my point of view. Remember, I don’t know her, so I’m only going on your version of events, but as I see it, every single thing you’ve told me is completely explicable in a rational sense. Before I start, please understand that I have no desire to be condescending, nor to diminish the emotional effect your friend’s experiences may have had on you or her.
First of all: it is entirely possible for a small child to be ‘tormented by ghosts’. I myself was completely freaked out by ghosts, giant spiders, and something that lived under my bed when I was a small child. I completely believed in the reality of these things for a very long time, and I even saw them, several times. You and your friend had genuine, honest-to-god experiences of things beyond your ken, that caused you indisputably real fear. Call them ghosts/witches/goblins – it does not matter. They were, for your unformed brains, completely real things. Most kids have these experiences. We know, from studying children’s brains, that this kind of thing is very common. It doesn’t mean that ‘ghasties and ghoulies and long-legged beasties’ are real in any practical way, though, just that the human brain, when growing is a complicated and mysterious organism that is quite capable of conjuring up realities that don’t exist. If you want to attempt to suppose that these realities really do exist, and only children can see them, then you are forced to go on to develop implausible reasons for why some very few children believe they keep on seeing them, while most of us don’t, except when we are sick or taking drugs that alter our mind chemicals.
If the ‘predictions’ or ‘dreams coming true’ that your friend has are anything like the one you’ve outlined above, well, then there are explanations for that too. First of all, you told me that, after some terribly troubling times, you were going away on a holiday – the first in a very long time. That your friend was concerned for you under those circumstances is completely understandable. If she is a ‘dreamer’ (and I was one once too – I used to dream with incredible frequency and amazing detail) then it’s unsurprising that you featured in her dream. Without knowing what kind of content her dreams usually have, I can’t comment on the gruesome nature of the dream you outline (it would, for example, be interesting if she mostly dreamed of kittens, say, and then had this one horrible dream out of the blue) but I can say one thing for certain – from what you say, she explicitly did NOT dream about the WTC tragedy. She dreamt about you being covered with glass and bleeding, with ambulances and people running around. In fact, her dream was by any sensible measure, completely inaccurate, because none of those things happened to you.
However, at that time, quite coincidentally*, people flew planes into the WTC. Please note that your friend did not dream any of the the major details that we associate with that event – planes, explosions, Islam, two huge buildings falling down. Had she done so, the dream would have been FAR more impressive.
Instead, she had a ‘concern’ dream about you involved in a rather gruesome accident, which, in actuality, never happened.
Let me put it another way – if your friend had dreamed that dream a couple of nights ago, it could easily have related to a story you might read any day in the papers. In fact let me just jump across to The Age, my local newspaper… ah yes – here’s a story today about a trucker who hit a woman outside a suburban Melbourne railway station, leaving her to die. There would undoubtedly have been blood, glass, ambulances and people running around. It’s not a major story like the WTC attack, but it fits all the details and could easily be concluded a psychic ‘hit’, had you lived in Melbourne, or known the woman, one of the ambulance drivers, or even been at that railway station earlier in the day.
You see what I’m getting at?
You say your friend describes the vagaries of her talent as ‘like the signal from a bad radio station’? Well, that’s just not a new explanation – I’ve read it thousands of times. Pretty much every psychic, from the fin-de-siecle mediums of the Spiritualist movement, through the receivers of Raudive Voices to telephone clairvoyants use it. Let’s ask exactly why that is… Is it because the psychic world is misty and indistinct, with details that fit many scenarios and are almost never accurate? If so, that begs another question – why is that? To answer that question we must resort to all kinds of interpretations of an already unsupported notion of a ‘spirit world’. The leaps of faith just keep on piling up. Isn’t it just more likely that there are really no real connections at all, and our minds are just always searching for patterns among the huge flood of data we get every day? Well, you know by now where I stand on that.
MI, once upon a time I was a good Christian, went to church on Sundays and believed in God as an all powerful and merciful figure that watched over us. Over time, I started asking questions about the suppositions involved in that belief structure and found it wanting in far too many ways. Through my teen years I was a big believer in the I-Ching & Tarot cards, and the possibilities that the human mind could scry the mysteries of the universe in unfathomable ways. But I started asking questions about the suppositions involved in those belief structures and found them wanting in far too many ways. What I learned from very wide reading and looking deeply at my own behaviour and the behaviour of others is that the human brain is very, very easily fooled. This is not to say that I consider you, or your friend, fools – you are combatting millennia of evolutionary pressure that comes into play when confronted with situations that do not square with our abilities to navigate the world. We are pattern-seekers by inexorable ancestral forces. When we look at the sky we see faces; when we experience coincidence we feel purpose; given data that is malleable, we see meaning.
It is no coincidence, in my mind, that most stage magicians are atheists or skeptics. They are constantly aware of how easy it is to make people believe things are other than they really are. But the difference between a stage magician and a psychic is that the expectation when visiting a stage magician is that you will be fooled, and fooled well. The expectation when visiting a ‘psychic’ is that you are going to be told the truth. I find it completely unforgiveable if the psychic knows they are fooling you, and I feel compelled by my sense of morality to point out the alternative explanations if they don’t.
I can tell you this one thing: in my life I have never seen any ‘psychic’ demonstration that seemed in any way convincing. All I need to be convinced – the ONLY thing – is a definitive, no-nonsense, accurate example of something that doesn’t have a more plausible scientific or rational explanation.
And yet, I’ve seen hundreds, if not thousands of examples of people doing simple psychological magic tricks and passing them off as ‘psychic powers’. From that I believe there is only one rational conclusion.
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*The influence of coincidence should never be underestimated, especially when the ‘details’ are open to interpretation. There are now billions of us on the planet. At any one moment it is highly likely, even probable, that someone is having a dream that will fit the circumstances of someone else’s experience. If those people confer in any way, then it appears to be uncanny. But as you can surely see – it’s really not.
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King Willy: Now now.
Atlas: The hand is quicker than the eye, and the pen is mightier than the sword. For my next trick, I will change my hand into a pen.
deRIK: Please excuse me for saying so, but I find you neither comprehensible nor funny, and I’m not engaging in the gnome discussion.
Not at all offended! Very good comeback, and none of it unreasonable at all. And I have my serious doubts about many who claim to have this.
But the ghosts never left…they came and went, they appeared (with me present…I wish I was on drugs) Things were thrown across rooms in my presence with our without her around. Many things I saw, heard, experienced I still cannot scientifically explain, rationally explain, or sometimes understand. Some of what you say may be appropriate and explain, some does not.She was and never has been a “show person,” if anything kept this on the down low and helped within smaller circles. She still holds a day job. I reckon this place is not the place to convey a lifetime of non-stop unexpected, uninvited or often unexplained things. Which of course spurs one to go find said answers. I am a science nut, was always my favorite subject,(er several subjects) still is….and proud to say my 11 year old honor roll student just got accepted into the Conrad School of Science (he has his mother’s genes.)
I truly respect your response, a great deal…may even be surprised how much I do. You speak with obvious conviction, knowledge and with no intent to insult. I respect that, a lot.
Thank you!
P.S.if you want to give up that sword and try my chain saw, I freely lend it out. Just a thought. Swords are so 1694.
Put something else in the box!
MI: I cannot all explain those things you saw or experienced. I wasn’t there to see them, so I can’t even speculate on the situation. I wish I had been there – I would have found it truly interesting to have been in the middle of such strangeness.
But personal experience is no proof of anything supernatural, sadly. I can either believe you, or disbelieve you, but I can’t make an informed opinion of my own because I wasn’t there. If I take your word for it, then I am forced (by logical imperative) to accept the word of anyone who tells me anything that sounds implausible. Do you see how that works? If I told you there’s a pixie sitting here on my desk you’d most likely not believe me. Why? Because, to your sense of rationality, that is absurd – you’ve made some assumptions based on your world view and what you know about me. If I started to insist there REALLY was a pixie, you’d go through quite a number of processes before you’d really, truly actually believed me. For instance, I would guess that at first you would think I was puling your leg. Then, after while of me becoming even more insistent, you might start to think maybe I was having some kind of hallucination, or tripping. You might ask me to take a photo of it. If I refused, or made an excuse, you would, justifiably become suspicious. If I acquiesced and sent you a picture but there was no pixie, and yet still insisted it was visible here to me, but not recordable by the camera you would have a conundrum to solve – there are only a few possibilities: 1. I’m telling the truth; 2. I’m hallucinating; 3. I’m deranged; 4. I’m lying (for whatever reasons) 5. I’ve misunderstood something I’m seeing for something else.
My point being, of course, that whatever the situation, you are unable to verify it for yourself because you’re not here. But, on the balance of what you know, you are forced to make an assumption, and I hope I’m not being presumptuous when I say that I think your assumption would be that there is no pixie at all.
I’m using the ‘pixie’ as an example because it is plainly ridiculous – where these things become complex is when they are sort of plausible (like, oh the Loch Ness Monster, say) or completely unprovable (like God).
The problem is, how do you decide what to believe and what not to believe out of a host of implausible claims?
My answer is: we use rational thinking. It might mean occasionally we gloss over implausible things that are real (like quantum mechanics or the platypus) but that, by and large, it’s a good guide to the way things are. And, using that system, we discover quantum mechanics and the platypus anyway, so it’s proved to be a pretty good method.
It has to be said: I’m not averse to a good ghost story. But when it comes down to it, I’m firmly of the opinion that rather than there having been a ghost, it’s more likely that a chain of coincidences and sensory mistakes gave me an impression of something other than reality.
I don’t feel my life is any poorer for thinking this way…
(Oh, and thanks for the offer of the chainsaw. Maybe I’ll take you up on that…)
Malach: No.
ah, Malach, comes right out and says what we’re all thinking, as usual.
Controlling Malach is difficult and something we must all try to do collectively. (Takes a village to raise a child type of thing.)
Super enjoying this intelligent (don’t want to call it a debate…convo maybe??)
Ok, for the record of the absurd.
You could NEVER EVER convince me in (insert obligatory “but if I was on an acid trip” clause here) the following critters not matter how convincing you are. And I do know how convincing one on your intelligence is….
1. Pixies
2. Fairies
3. Sprites
4. Trolls (except for Malach)
5. Talking/Walking trees
6. Unicorns
7. Dragons (The Greeks I believe found dinosaur bones and not understanding how they all fit together created dragons and other such lovely critters in their arsenal.)
8. Dwarfs (except Moooooog.)
9. Santa Claus
10. The Easter Bunny
11. Leprechauns
12. Intelligent creation
13. Zeus and his gang
14. and any other fluffy bunny fantasy I cannot think of this early in the morning.
You will get me to believe and study the fossil record and carbon 14 dating and geological studies to help find answers to our past, present and sadly, our future.
And no, dinosaurs did not live with humans and the earth is not 3,000 years old. (sigh….some folks…are so funny.)
Very logical mind, inquisitive. When I say things have been thrown across the room, there is no mistaking what thrown is, what moved is, shake, trembled (we have no earthquakes here, none reported) voices, sounds, loud bangs in house while alone (nope, not the plumbing either.) Physically attacked and chocked (had doctor confirm no medical issue there..that was my friend and saw it happen, doc cleared her next of any known medical issues.) Panicking womanf? Perhaps, but doubt it. To rational, skeptical, want truth not dismissal or fanciful stories. Would I believe it if I had not seen it. No. My way of thinking would have forbade it. So what do you do with information/experiences that go against your logical way of thinking. You try to find a reasonable answer. At the end when you find yourself still holding a bag of information with no reasonable answers, what do you do? Especially when your gut is screaming that this did happen.
That is kinda where I am at. No, no acid..no drugs. Perhaps I should start? :)
Kidding,
Thanks again. Always good perspectives for sure. (Except Malach’s.)
OK, sure, I understand completely where you’re coming from, and I’ll distill it down to the one significant question I think you’re asking: how does a normal, balanced, skeptical individual quantify an experience that seems to contradict all the laws of rational thought that can be brought to bear on it?
It’s a great question. And, to help illustrate how I think it can be answered, let me tell two stories.
Story One: When I was younger, my family and I would mostly spend our summer holidays at various rented cottages near a beach on the South Coast of New South Wales. It’s a popular holiday destination. One year (I estimate I was maybe 14 or 15) some very strange things happened in house in which we were staying: personal items went mysteriously missing; there were strange knocks on the wall in the middle of the night; lights kept switching themselves on or off. All these things were odd but could easily be explained by the mischievousness of my pesky brother (who vehemently denied responsibility). But on three separate occasions, things happened which could not be explained by his naughty behaviour. On the first occasion, I was in the living room/kitchen of the cottage, by myself, when a box of matches hit me in the side of the head. I reiterate: no-one was in the room. My brother was at the beach. There were no windows open and there was no-one else in sight. Was I freaked out? You betcha! On the second occasion, a cardboard toilet roll fell in my lap when I was playing cards. My brother quite obviously didn’t throw it – he was holding a full gin-rummy hand, and besides, I was looking directly at him at the time. There was no-one else in the room. He was as freaked out as me. The third time, a small plastic toy (the kind you got out of a Cornflakes packet) was thrown at my sister when no-one else was around. We all agreed that this cottage was haunted!
Story Two: When I was a little older, about 19, I was at film school in Sydney. I often used to drive home on weekends to visit my family, who lived about two hours drive away. Usually, I’d leave Sydney on a Friday evening, around 7pm, say, and return on a Sunday at about the same time. One Sunday, heading back to Sydney, I was about half way, travelling through the countryside on a back road I used to sometimes take to avoid the busy highway. There were a number of little wooden or stone bridges on that road, and as I approached one of them, I saw, unmistakeably, a little man standing near the edge of the bridge. When I say little, I mean little – less than a foot tall. Before I could get a good look at him (I was approaching rapidly, and my headlights were sweeping up toward him) he made a very human-like gesture (kind of like a double-take) and disappeared off the side of the road and under the bridge. Was I freaked out? You betcha!
Each of these stories proposed a situation that defied my rational understanding of the world. You’ll remember I said in this thread that I was once into Tarot and iChing? Well it was about the time of the second story. So I was predisposed to think that something ‘supernatural’ had occurred in that case, and in the first incident, I was a youngster and not terribly discriminating at all.
Now I think you’re going to be surprised to know that I now know exactly what was going on in the first story, and I haven’t even a remote explanation for the second one.
Story One: My brother later confessed that he’d been responsible for everything, even the mysterious ‘hurled’ objects? But HOW? He hadn’t even been in the room for the matchbox, and I absolutely know he didn’t throw the cardboard tube! My sister swore that there’d definitely been no-one around when she was hit with the plastic toy (I kept that toy for many many years, and it’s possible I still have it somewhere).
Turns out that my bro had tumbled on an idea so obvious that when you know it (like when you know the secret of most magic tricks) it’s so blindingly simple that you can’t believe you didn’t spot it. What he did was this – he climbed up on a chair and very lightly stuck the ‘thrown’ objects with some sticky-tape to the top of the ceiling fan in the dining room. They stayed there as the fan lazily rotated until they became unstuck and were propelled across the room. It sounds so unconvincing now – surely I thought of that at the time! Surely I spotted the fan and put two-and-two together. But I didn’t. As with most magic tricks, one part of the process had become invisible to my senses, and another part of the process had become super visible.
Story Two: I have no idea what I saw. At the time, I would have sworn on a stack of bibles (well, probably not – by that time I was pretty sure there was no such thing as God), but I would have sworn that I saw a little man, who saw me, did a double-take and disappeared under the bridge. At the very least I’d be prepared to accept that it was a monkey, say. Something very human like. What it definitely was not was any of the Australian wildlife that I was accustomed to seeing when I grew up in an Australian country town. Thinking back, I’d be prepared to accept that I might have seen something like an owl, or a possum and for various reasons anthropomorphized it into a gnome. My brain tells me that of all the possibilities, that is the most likely explanation. But it didn’t seem like a likelihood at the time. It may or may not be of relevance that I’d had a particularly emotional weekend with my parents, and was having difficulties adapting to my life away from my home and friends.
In any case: is there a strategy to approaching these kinds of dilemmas? I believe so – you file things you don’t understand into the ‘Don’t Understand’ basket, and accept that, until more data becomes available, you might not actually get to understand it during your lifetime.
What you explicitly don’t do is embroider a whole lot of theories around what you saw that are based on anything other than what you know to be true. What do I mean by that? Well, in that first story, as you read, I was initially (correctly) suspicious of my brother. Where I made my mistake was eliminating my brother’s influence as a possibility by thinking that he could not conceivably be responsible for the mysterious thrown objects. A small amount of investigation would have completely exposed his ploy. In fact, it turns out that my parents were completely aware of what was going on, to their great amusement. What I did wrong was to jump to a completely incorrect conclusion way too fast, and, very importantly because there was a part of me that wanted to!
Psychic charlatanism aside, this is where most genuine folk go wrong – they leap far too quickly to ascribe ‘uncanny’ events to an incomplete or badly studied data set. And often because they want to.
Now I’m not suggesting this is the case in your story – I simply can’t say what was going on. But I believe I can say with some certainty that what you and your friend experienced was not some kind of supernatural malevolent evil force, because, on the balance of what I know about this stuff and human nature, that seems less likely than a number of other more probable explanations. For example, even though you say the doctor confirmed there was no medical issue, he/she could easily have been mistaken – what if your friend had had some kind of temporary seizure? I’ve seen people having seizures and they can do some mighty weird things… I’m not saying this was the case, just that there are often facets of these situations that, for whatever reasons, remain unexplored.
Well, that’s a huge rave on a huge subject. I hope some of it was interesting.
Naughty brother! (But I like his style)
Several incidents happened when I was alone, single mom with two little ones in the house. One was 11 months old, another 4 with severe autism and had about the same mentality as the 11 month old. Often things would happen while alone and them asleep. Such as the coffee mug across the room. Which broke (cheap mug) And the basement door which had a very tight hook and eye lock would come open constantly, with me standing in the kitchen by the door, or not…making me go mad as a hatter thinking I kept leaving it unlocked. I was in there one day washing dishes, I hear “click”, it’s swinging, open. I lock it again, securely, few minutes later “click”. One more round, I say “cut that out!” and it stops. Never happens again.
One a day I was changing #1’s diaper, I was alone. Put lotion on him, closed lid, set lotion next to him on diaper table as per usual routine. Picked him up, turned around to place him in crib and turned back around (this motion took about a whole 3 seconds) and lotion was open and squirted across the room, even hitting the door. ?????? Just a very few of the stories I have from times when I was alone, knew I was alone and children were to small and accounted for.
I still have no answers, and went batty trying to find a logical one. Many I did find logical answers for. Don’t want you thinking every bump I hear I believe is fella trying to get my attention. (Although at the time that would have been a welcomed relief!) Poltergeist activity where something from my own mind was creating these activities? Perhaps? Maybe? I was under a lot of stress, I was sick for several years, #1 had daily melt downs that required me to pin him to a safety mat on the floor so he would not beat the crap out of himself. The power of my own mind? Frustrated, angry, venting in a way? Dunno… need more physics training to understand that.
I have really enjoyed this. Great stories. great mind you have, which only makes me appreciate you even more. I enjoy and value those with intelligence who use it wisely. This also shows that folks don’t have to agree on everything or see everything the same way and not like one another. The world needs to learn this lesson. Honest, open productive debate is a good thing.
And thank you for giving your perspective without talking down or being insulting. Very informative, honest and a pleasure to read, as always…joking or serious. :)
P.S. This is the first time I have written about any of those accounts, especially on- line for public viewing. And this is over a lifetime of experiences. So I have never been about coming up with fanciful stories for the sake of gaining attention. But your original post caught my attention. Brilliant exercise though, brilliant!
You are OK in my book. :) Now what to do with Malach???
Namaste,
M.I.
Oddly enough, the other day an older geology professor told me this about the future job markets in all things dirt and rock:
“Remote sensing is where the money will really be.”
Astounding, is it not? I should buy the pen and write it off as an investment.
Wow, and to think I dismissed TRVU so lightly! Maybe I misread their site. Just a sec, I’ll check.
Nope. They’re idiots alright.
(Seriously though – yeah, and when Google releases ‘Google DEEP Earth’ there’ll be a stampede of virtual prospectors!)